I do not know how many times a certain verse has rung in my head. Knowing that all Scripture is God-breathed it’s fascinating to read this:
“He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.” Proverbs 13:24.
Wow. The Bible says that if you spare the rod you hate your own son. That is really strong language. It is hard to spank your children, but if you do not use the rod on your children, ultimately, you are not showing them that you love them. I tell
Additionally, using the rod is not really a choice for me.
- Consistency, Consistency, Consistency. I try not to start spanking him when I am frustrated. I say, “
- If it is an action that could harm himself or others then he definitely gets a spanking.
- If he throws a fit and falls on the floor, I say “if you continue this you will be spanked” and he gets a spanking and usually stops. He has to know that throwing a temper tantrum is not loving and does not bring God glory. Letting him just cry in his crib (for some sort of time out situation that God does not call for me to do in the Bible) and not spanking him is not loving for me as a parent. I will say I have given countless YMCA children time out and have seen it “work” in a public school-type setting, but I am
- Recently, he has been doing so much better since he is now able to communicate with us through signs. He does not get frustrated as much now…he hardly even throws a fit on the floor…and some days he does not even get a spanking (but most days he does)
- I do not dare do it in public. My goal in using the rod is not humiliation but saving his soul from death. Charlie has had to go to the bathroom and spank him a few times while out to eat.
- It is hard to be a parent. It takes work and I just cannot sit on the computer or on the phone and let him be defiant…although many days that seems like a very good idea.
- It’s biblical. Whenever God commands us to do a certain thing, He does so because he knows that we are prone to do the opposite.
Proverbs 23:13-14 states, “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.”
We are called to discipline our children with the rod to save our children’s soul from death
I am reading the New Strong Will Child, by Dobson and am having a hard time getting through it. Many times, I feel (and know) that Dobson integrates psychology with the Bible and often times that approach just does not work. The Bible’s world view is to die to self and depend on God, and the world view of man (psychology) is to build up self and to depend on self not on God.
Still the best book I have read on parenting is “Don’t Make Me Count to Three” by Plowman…I want to read it again.
Do you have any books that you would recommend?
9 comments:
I was a nanny for 3 and a half years to the sweetest little boy, but he was very, VERY defiant (still is, even though he's 6 now) but his mom recommended the book "Have A New Kid By Friday" (sorry, I'm not sure the author). I've never personally read the book, but she says that it gives many alternatives rather than having your children become "immune" to a particular punishment. She checked it out from the public library so I'm sure Cola has it as well.
Thanks so much Lauren. I love to hear good books to read. It is great to hear from you!
Teaching your child to fear the pain of corporal punishment is a great way to coerce the desired behavior. However, to me it implies that you will be forced down this road until he leaves homes. I hope you have considered that you will have to change from open hand spanking to full blown belt whippings as he matures in order to continue to have the desired effect. Discipline through fear and pain is effective but there are other options. Also consider that the Bible says a rebellious child must be taken to the city gates and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 21 18-21) The point is that society and times change. It appears that your heart is in the right place. Don't take the word 'rod' so literally in the same way that you don't take the directive to stone him to death literally either. I hope that you will not continue to take the easy and abusive way out.
Anonymous,
Please allow me to respond to your claims:
1."Teaching your child to fear the pain of corporal punishment is a great way to coerce the desired behavior."
I believe there is more to using the rod than this. The use of the rod for strictly behavior modification would be useless. The use of the rod, along with loving reconciliation after its use, goes a long way to meeting the goal of heart change. Heart change is the goal of disciplining my child. Therefore, you 'agree' with me on a style of discipline that I don't even advocate.
2."However, to me it implies that you will be forced down this road until he leaves homes. I hope you have considered that you will have to change from open hand spanking to full blown belt whippings as he matures in order to continue to have the desired effect."
I will not use the rod as a form of discipline until my son leaves home, which would probably be the age of 18. Biblically, a child is a child until puberty - thus 11, 12 years old. Also, I do not use my hand. I use a wooden spoon. I don't forsee using a belt. I believe that when the child hits puberty he is either a young man or a young woman. To spank at that age is humiliating, embarrassing and loses its goal of heart-change.
3."Discipline through fear and pain is effective but there are other options."
You make the false presupposition that I intimidate my child. His actions have consequences, that's it. I believe that other options are un-biblical.
4."Also consider that the Bible says a rebellious child must be taken to the city gates and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 21 18-21"
I believe that that passage of Scripture is a part of the covenant God made to the Jews, whereas Proverbs is a book that seeks to impart wisdom. Both are equally inspired but have different audiences.
5."The point is that society and times change."
Yes, they do, however the Word of God remains forever. Also, change does not always equal "for the better."
6."I hope that you will not continue to take the easy and abusive way out."
Again, you make the false presupposition that I abuse my child. I do not. Also, disciplining your child in a biblical way is not easy. It takes faith and trust.
Thanks for your input. I hope that you understand more of where I, as well as many others, are coming from on this issue.
I think you handled Anon quite well. We had a discussion a while back about discipline. I was thinking about it the other day. I realized that my thoughts for discipline were for the older kids. They do get disciplined without a warning to behave first because they know better already. They have been warned. However, when they are little like Jackson's age, there is a warning first because they are in training. Just some thoughts as I have been in serious training mode with Baby G. Something new I have learned though is from a seminar this summer. A girls brain and a boys brain is different. (I knew that part.) For a boy, pain brings clarity. For a girl, pain doesn't. It is how we are wired. I have seen with my girls, that this is true. I also found two amazing resources. I think I told you about tomato staking. (RaisingGodlyTomatoes.com) I also found Reb Bradley at Family Ministries. I went to a seminar called Winning Your Child's Heart. It was life changing. Anyway I recommend both of those along with Tedd Tripp I saw him once a long time ago before I had kids and really agreed with what he said. I realized recently that I never got his book. It is on my list now. However, no matter how many books I read and agree with or disagree with I find that I go straight to the Word to see what the Lord says about the issue at hand. My goal is always the heart over the actual behavior. The behavior is in the here and now but the heart, is eternal.
Have a wonderful weekend.
You are an educated and thoughtful woman who is doing everything possible to be an effective mother. I respect that and I respect your polite tone and ability to cleanly rebut my points.
I do, however, feel that physical punishment is wrong and has no place in a parent child relationship. You are at best naive if you truly believe that your child does not fear the pain of a spanking. I am, however, intrigued that on one hand you claim that the Word of God remains forever and on the other hand completely write off selected verses as irrelevant. Would you please elaborate on this? We agree that certain parts are irrelevant, but for different reasons.
We obviously disagree on the effectiveness and usefulness of corporal punishment but I respect your right as a parent to use it.
Thank you for your kind words. The subject of parenting can always bring out strong emotions. One of the reasons I feel that is the case is because every mother feels deep down that she is responsible for her children and they are likewise a reflection of her. Let me answer your last two objections:
"I feel that physical punishment is wrong and has no place in a parent child relationship. You are at best naive if you truly believe that your child does not fear the pain of a spanking."
I'd be curious as to why you think physical pain is wrong. Some people have the misconception that people should never feel pain. However, if you touched a hot stove but did not feel pain, then how would you know that your hand was burning?
God has given us the 'gift' of pain so that we can learn what to do and what not to do. Use of the rod and the 'sting' of its use helps reinforce to a young child right from wrong. For example, the pain inflicted on Jackson via use of the rod is significantly less then the pain inflicted if he were to pull a lamp off the coffee table and have it break one of his bones or have the bulb shatter in his hands.
Again, pain is not the primary reason for the use of the rod but it is one of its effects. Our society has a misconception that pain is some horrible thing that has no purpose. It has purpose. It's a warning sign. Likewise, our Heavenly Father disciplines us as well. It can be painful, but we learn from that pain.
On the other hand, 'time-outs' are exasperating for your children. They cry and cry and cry and don't understand. Scripture also says to not exasperate your children.
"I am, however, intrigued that on one hand you claim that the Word of God remains forever and on the other hand completely write off selected verses as irrelevant. Would you please elaborate on this? We agree that certain parts are irrelevant, but for different reasons."
Deut 21 is not irrelevant. It was written as law to the Jewish nation. The underlying principle of the 'law' was that disobedience and rebellion were not to be tolerated in the home or allowed to continue unchecked. The question of hermeneutics (interpretation of Scripture) is better served for another discussion.
Obviously, how one interprets Scripture is crucial to one's application of it. All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, however one has to note the context for proper interpretation. We are not called to follow 600+ precepts as the Jewish peopled tried to do.
We cannot read Scripture 100% literally nor can we read it 100% metaphorically. Each book and genre has a main idea and we should seek to read that in its proper and natural context. The main idea of Deut is the unveiling of God's covenant with Israel while keeping the hope of a coming Messiah. The main idea of Proverbs is wisdom literature. For instance, "do this, and this will generally happen."
God chose to give that direction to the Jewish nation that he had a covenant with. If you are a believer in Jesus, then you are a partaker in the new covenant,which is a covenant of grace where Jewish law does not bind us.
First, I have to say this. I think it speaks volumes that Anon has such strong opinions, yet is not willing to make themselves known.
Now, for my book suggestion. FBC gave us "Shepherding a Child's Heart" by Tedd Tripp. He basically says that to refuse corporal punishment is to refuse the Word of God. Sounds to me, from your discussion with Anon, that you know the importance of the rod. This book gives specific guidelines for the proper execution of corporal punishment.
Celestine-
It is great to hear from you and we miss you at FBC! I love Shepherding a Child's heart and have read it a few times...it is great! Thanks so much for the encouragement.
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